We talked with Palestinian pastor and theologian Munther Isaac about his book Christ in the Rubble: Faith, the Bible, and the Genocide in Gaza, which challenges USAmerican Christians' uncritical embrace of the modern State of Israel. Speaking from his unique vantage point as a Christian pastor on the ground in Bethlehem, he reveals how Israel's campaign to eliminate the Palestinian people is a continuation of a colonial project with nineteenth-century roots that has, since 1948, established systems of entrenched discrimination and segregation worse than South Africa's apartheid regime. In this powerful conversation, he calls on Christians to repent of their complicity in the destruction of the Palestinian people, and challenges them to realign their beliefs and actions with Christ--who can be found not among perpetrators of violence, but with victims buried under the rubble of war.

Additional notes:

• The Kairos Palestine document (creative non-violent resistance)
• Munther Isaac on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter
• Christ at the Checkpoint (Youtube channel)
• Across the Divide Podcast



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We talked with professor and author Andrew Root about the ironic reality that our modern pursuit of happiness has made us stressed, anxious, lonely, and depressed, and what evangelism and outreach might look like in this age of despair.

Andrew Root is the Carrie Olson Baalson Professor of Youth and Family Ministry at Luther Seminary. He is the author of more than 20 books and hosts the influential When Church Stops Working podcast.

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We talked with Anglican priest and spiritual director D.T. (Danny) Bryant about his book Unless a Seed Falls to the Ground: Welcoming the Death of the Whiteness Gospel, where he shares the wounds and rewards of being a native son of the puritanical way of life called "whiteness," and offers the hope of inviting us into a season of "hospice spirituality" that allows the church rooted in the whiteness gospel to die with dignity.

D.T. (Danny) Bryant serves as a priest at St. Mary of Bethany Parish, as a Spiritual Director with The Center for Hope and Healing, and as Athletic Director at Independence Academy in middle Tennessee. He is also a co-founder of the Black Mental Health Counselor Reparations Foundation (bmhcr.org). Daniel is passionate about seeking practical, just, and merciful healing in the world and enjoys life with his wife and four children.

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We talked with Mariko Clark about conceiving, writing, and publishing a new children's Bible story book: The Book of Belonging: Bible Stories for Kind and Contemplative Kids.

Mariko Clark is a Japanese American author, mother, and storyteller on a mission to help kids embrace diversity and wonder. Her time as an editor at National Geographic Learning sharpened her ability to make complex topics accessible and engaging. She equips kids and caregivers with spiritual resources to navigate the messy middle, wrestle with tough questions, and find community in the journey. Mariko lives outside of Indianapolis with her husband and three sweet and spicy kids.

Additional notes:

• Mariko mentioned the concept of "windows, mirrors, and sliding-glass doors”' in children’s literature, originated by Dr. Rudine Sims Bishop. Here’s a short clip of Dr. Bishop explaining the importance of diversity in literature for all children, regardless of race.
• Michelle Eastman (@disabilitytheology) was the resident Disability theologian for The Book of Belonging. To learn more, Michelle recommends A Healing Homiletic by Kathy Black, The Disabled God by Nancy L. Eiesland and The Bible and Disability, ed. Melcher, Parsons, & Yong. My Body is Not a Prayer Request by Dr. Amy Kenny is a more accessible resource that touches on a lot of the same information.
• Mariko and The Book of Belonging's illustrator, Rachel Eleanor, also offer The Belonging Workshop on Substack. The Belonging Workshop is a weekly Sabbath resource that provides sacred rhythms for folks in liminal faith spaces, with offerings that are a mix of explicitly religious practices as well as mindful and somatic practices, visual resources, and a kind and curious community.

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We talked with Tom Oord again about a lot of questions that came up in light of our conversation about his book God Can’t: How to Believe in God and Love after Tragedy, Abuse, and Other Evils: If "God Can't" determine outcomes unilaterally, what can God do? What about miracles? What about the renewal of all things? Can we be confident that God's love will "win" in the end? This was another mind-stretching conversation on open and relational theology.

Thomas Jay Oord is a theologian, philosopher, and scholar of multi-disciplinary studies. Oord is a best-selling and award-winning author, having written or edited more than thirty books. Academic Influence ranks him among the most influential theologians in the 21st century. Oord directs doctoral programs at Northwind Theological Seminary and directs the Center for Open and Relational Theology. He is known for his research and writing on love, open and relational theology, science and religion, evil and power, and the implications of freedom and relationships for transformation.

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Content Warning: situations of sexual abuse and rape are mentioned in this podcast.

We talked with internationally recognized psychologist Diane Langberg about coming face to face with the crushing trauma of sexual abuse, trafficking, domestic abuse, and rape—and its cover-up, all tragically encountered within Christian communities and the church. In her book, When the Church Harms God’s People, Langberg unveils what she has learned about how churches cause harm and why Christian communities often foster unhealthy leaders who end up hurting rather than protecting God’s people.

Diane Langberg (PhD, Temple University) is an internationally recognized psychologist with more than 50 years of experience. She chaired the advisory board of the American Association of Christian Counselors until 2021 and cofounded the Global Trauma Recovery Institute, which trains therapists to assist trauma victims across the world. She is the founder of Langberg, Monroe and Associates, which provides counseling services in Jenkintown, Pennsylvania, and consults with Christian organizations around the world. Langberg is the author of seven books, including Redeeming Power. Her books have been translated into 10 languages.

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We talked with "TikTok Pastor" Brandan Robertson about how the Bible has been weaponized to exclude LGBTQ+ individuals, despite Jesus’ radical message of inclusion. In his book Queer & Christian: Reclaiming the Bible, Our Faith, and Our Place at the Table, Robertson offers compelling, evidence-based counterarguments to the "clobber verses" often used to condemn queerness, and envisions a faith where all are unequivocally embraced.

Rev. Brandan Robertson is an author, activist, and theologian known as the "TikTok Pastor." He hosts the Faith for the Rest of Us podcast and has authored or contributed to 26 books, including the INDIES Book of the Year finalist, True Inclusion. His work appears in TIME, The Huffington Post, and The Washington Post. Named in Rolling Stone's 2021 "Hot List," he speaks at venues like The White House and Oxford University and is a champion for LGBTQ+ rights. He is pursuing a PhD in Biblical Studies at Drew University.

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We talked with former evangelical pastor Jeff Mikels about the evangelical church's embrace of cultural and political idols, and his regret of his complicity in this trend. Jeff's book Evangelical Idolatry: How Pastors Like Me Have Failed the People of God is both a confession and a call to repentance. Reflecting on his twenty-year pastoral ministry with candor and humility, Mikels acknowledges the ways he enabled parishioners to develop destructive loyalties to cultural and political idols. As he works to reform his own worldview and embrace allegiance to Christ alone, he urges evangelical pastors and laypeople to join him in reforming their faith and living out the good news of the true gospel.

Jeff Mikels holds degrees from Wheaton College and Denver Seminary. He has over 20 years of pastoral experience, leading a church in Chicago for five years before planting one in Lafayette, IN. There, he was involved in the Pastors' Alliance; he also helped establish the Greater Lafayette Gospel Association, which is a network of gospel-focused ministries, and served as its president.

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